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« four surefire ingredients for public speaking success | Main | is watching you »
Monday
Sep292008

the real reason vegetarians get knickers in knots

Tofu will make your dick fall off.

Tofu will make you senile.

A gumby doll made of tofu will enter through unsecured doors and seduce your teenaged daughter and, despite his withered schmeckle, knock her up with agedashi-gumby babies who will have to sleep marinated in cribfulls of Korean barbeque sauce.

This week our community paper printed an article that shrieked breathlessly of our collective doom at the hand of the ‘seemingly innocuous soybean’, claiming among other things that the more tofu you eat, the higher degree of cognitive impairment and brain deterioration you will experience later in life. This ‘potent legume’, contests the article, is not a nutrient but a drug, and only good for celibate monks seeking to subdue their libido.

And so that’s it. I’ve had it. I’ve officially been catapulted from the Constantly Mocked But More Or Less Inoffensive Vegetarian Who Keeps To Herself And Does Not Rise To Being Baited to the caricature that everyone loves to hate.

(sidenote: it occurs to me that hostile vegephobia is akin to homophobia in that those most vehemently offended by non-meat-eaters are the ones most likely to harbour a closeted discomfort with meat consumption. Or perhaps a closeted fetish to be hog-tied and forced to lick miso paste off the sole of a vegan’s hemp sneaker. I digress.)

Reading the paper in the car I nearly drove Justin off the road with my sputtering rage at seeing such poorly researched, ignorant and irresponsible paranoia in print.

Christ on a cracker, will you put that damn paper away he said. Besides, LOOK AT YOU. You’re wearing BIRKENSTOCKS and you just said yourself that you KIND OF STINK.

++++

You can make a stir-fry of baby lambs and golden retriever puppies every night. I don’t mind. Our cult headquarters only awards ten bucks for every convert. You’re not worth the effort.

But it has to be said. Soy is a BEAN. It is neither magic nor toxic. Tofu, tempeh and miso are natural foods eaten plentifully by gazillions of people for hundreds of years. Highly processed soy is in highly processed foods. Highly processed foods turn your innards into a festering sludgepond. The more frankenfood and factory food and microwaveable ‘lean cuisine’ you shovel unthinkingly into your trap (caution: may cause rectal seepage), the less good you’ll feel and be.

Read ingredient lists. If anything sounds more chemical than food-based, don’t eat it. Make stuff yourself. It’s NOT THAT HARD. Only feed Scooby-Doo Alpha Getti to your children once it has been confirmed that no one from your blog is watching.

Google ‘dangers of soy’ and the cyber superhighway will oblige you with enough fear, uncertainty and doubt to keep you bobbing happily in that giant vat of corned beef hash without a care in the world for the rest of your life.

Likewise, google ‘dangers of cabbage’ or ‘dangers of public yoga after cabbage consumption’ and you’ll get the very same.

++++

Why does becoming a vegetarian elicit more outrage and mockery than becoming a stripper? How do vegetarian strippers get through life without going batshit crazy?

Why does anyone care what anyone else eats?

Never mind. I think I already know the answer. Do you?

 

Reader Comments (63)

As an omnivore, I would have to say that we spend entirely too much time worrying about what other people eat. As an omnivore with type-I diabetes, I am lectured so often on what I'm eating, usually by people who have not the first clue what they're talking about, that I am ready to give up eating with anyone other than total strangers. Seriously.

I think you hit the nail on the head though, Kate, when you said that it's most likely the guilt that people feel about their own consumption habits. I do eat a moderate amount of meat (although I do eschew the golden retriever-lo mein), but I also try to be aware of where my food comes from and what happens on its way to my kitchen. I don't treat what I eat like a guilty pleasure, I don't eat mindlessly, and as a grownup, I'm well aware that there are lots of other points of view that can all be considered perfectly valid.

I have been troubled in the past by how eagar people seem to be to tell other people how and what to eat. There was considerable discussion earlier this year on Mark Bittman's blog at the NY Times regarding the point of view that poor people should be planting gardens and reducing their consumption of everything else. Interestingly enough, most of the poor people I know live in apartments, not 12-acre farms, and don't have a lot of free time for growing organic heirloom lettuces and raising free-range chicken.

Anyway, well-said. Thanks.
September 29, 2008 | Unregistered CommenterMolly
I'm kinda sorta vegetarian (I eat a little fish and chicken here and there - it's just simpler to identify as vegetarian rather than picky and lay out all the scenarios in which I MIGHT eat chicken or fish). And we avoid highly processed foods. I can't believe that article. Or the number of times I hear, "But how do you get enough iron???"
September 29, 2008 | Unregistered Commentercinnamon gurl
all I know is that when the nice man at Pink Sushi handed me some rice wrapped in nori and topped with tempeh on Saturday, my hungover, in pain self nearly hurled all over the counter. That my friend, was foul.

can't do miso either, even with the hub loving it. Blech.

I'm trying! For you I try! But, FAIL.
September 29, 2008 | Unregistered Commenterthordora
Interesting. I think the media, in general, is in place to hyperinstate people; (I know that's not even a word).I did just meet with a naturopath doctor last week, to finally tackle some lifelong issues with anxiety, and she is doing a diet analysis of me. Of all the things she encouraged me, (removal of dairy from diet, which I have heard before), she said Soy is not a recommended replacement in a diet. Soybeans are fine, but Soymilk, she said, is being found to produce negative long term effects in people who consume it in various forms throughout a day. I don't know what it means, as I can't eat the stuff not in it's native form. But it was an interesting thing to hear, since it's pretty trendy.
September 29, 2008 | Unregistered CommenterJo
Oh, and to answer your question, who am I to judge what others eat? I can down an entire jar of Nutella with a spoon, one sitting ;).
September 29, 2008 | Unregistered CommenterJo
Beans have been discriminated against since Pythagoras.
September 29, 2008 | Unregistered CommenterBlack Hockey Jesus
"poorly researched, ignorant and irresponsible paranoia in print" -- what, as opposed to everything else in the mainstream media?
September 29, 2008 | Unregistered CommenterMagda
Try being a vegetarian, homebirthing, atheist. It's a powerful hate-mongering trifeca. I only need to be a lesbian and then I'd really be on the road to Hades or sumthin'. (rolls eyes, flashes peace sign)
Yes, Vegetarianism inspires incredible anger in others, it seems. Perhaps, like most unconventional lifestyles or choices, it causes others to question their own values? And sometimes what we see is hard to swallow. Ba-da-bum!
Off to eat some Tofurkey "fa-con" wraps...
September 29, 2008 | Unregistered CommenterMereMortal
It seems like there is always someone with an opinion about what everyone else is doing. If we all spent more time focusing on what we need to do to keep ourselves healthy, we would all be in better shape.
September 29, 2008 | Unregistered CommenterSharon
Even as an omnivore, I must say GOD I'M SO SICK OF THOSE ARTICLES! Seriously, I agree with you Kate. The way that people act like Soy is suddenly the monster and causes breast cancer etc. etc. is ridiculous.
September 29, 2008 | Unregistered CommenterJen
Probably 80% of our families meals are vegetarian. Only my 7 year old calls herself a vegetarian. And we do secretly mock her b/c she's a vegetarian who doesn't eat any vegetables. What do you call those kind of eaters?? Kids?

We have a whole bunch of farmers living in our area (lots of hog barns and grain fields). So we don't usually use the 'cruelty to animals' argument, we tend to fall on the 'diet for a small planet' end of the vegetarian spectrum. I've never really debated with people who eat a lot of meat, but I wonder what argument they'd be more receptive to. I honestly have no idea.
September 29, 2008 | Unregistered CommenterMonica
Thor, one of these days I'm going to be sneaky and underhanded and serve you tempeh and I will trick you and you will like it and I will take pictures with subtitles that say A-HA! BWWAAAAAHAHAHAH! (evil cackle) and I will buy a billboard in monktown.

Sorry, I couldn't resist. Just yankin yer chain.
September 29, 2008 | Unregistered Commentersweetsalty kate
so long as I'm not hungover grrrl, you're on. :P
September 29, 2008 | Unregistered Commenterthordora
I think the soy in processed foods is the problem as well as high fructose corn syrup, but I still like corn, yah know! I agree with you, although every part of me still needs meat I admire the "other" eaters. I even appreciate and order a veggie burger here and there. Why should I have a problem with what you eat or vice versa. Truly I think tofu to the omnivore is not near as revolting(it kicks butt in soy sauce) as meat must be to the veggie-vegan soul.

For humor, I am in the DEEP south, with a "we have actually roasted pig on our own spit" type of family. My cousin married a Jewish, New York animal rights activist/musician/vegan. Another cousin came to the family get together with a baby chick for Easter that she let her 2 year old handle any way she wanted. Needless to say the poor guy almost leapt out of his animal loving skin, you had to be there but the chick was alright and I am still chuckling :) We all still like each other though, differences can be fun albeit uncomfortable at times.
September 29, 2008 | Unregistered Commenterjen
We vegetarians are scary people with our veggie eating and weird marinated cubes we try to force y'all to eat! Seriously, I've been a vegetarian for 25 years (almost, I think I started when I was 10 or 11) and the crap that people say to me. So defensive! Geez. And not to plug my blog but I linked to my post where I discuss why I became a vegetarian in response to former coworkers and other folks harassing me for MY eating choices.
September 29, 2008 | Unregistered Commenterandrea
I love your vegephobia/homophobia comparison... brilliant.
September 29, 2008 | Unregistered CommenterJennifer
Because we are a judgemental animal that's why. I've seen vegetarians sit and look at each other with disgust and say, "Oh, you eat *those* marshmallows?"

And if you are an omnivore who hangs with vegetarians, vegans, a raw foodist here and there, then at one time or another you will get the feeling that you are being judged harshly with your own choices. Funny to me that to my "mainstream" friends I'm seen as the fruitcake nutcase who gives too much of a shit about high fructose processed hydrogenated stuff and to my veggie head friends I'm seen as Mrs. Willy Wonka with sugar water running through my veins.

And that's ok, because I think they are all crazy and only I know how to do it all right.
September 29, 2008 | Unregistered CommenterK
Oh, please! Give me a break! I'm a newly-converted pesco-vegetarian and that article sounds like such BS! In this new "green" age we seem to be entering, I'm amused that gen pop is so quick to villify "green" eating. I guess no matter how eco-friendly our society becomes, change is still dangerous. I hope whoever wrote it enjoys living in the stone age. I however, will enjoy my lentils, veggies and greens with wild abandon!
September 29, 2008 | Unregistered CommenterJen
Oh good god, that was funny! (I love Justin for that birk-dig!)

I like meat. I like tofu. But I guess I'm funny that way.

Just don't come to my house and complain about what I eat, and I won't complain at yours! Right?
September 29, 2008 | Unregistered Commentermnkathy
I do find it funny that people get so upset about what others eat. I'm not judging you by what's on my plate, I'm just EATING so that I don't die. I mean, that is the idea, right?

But then, I've come to believe people need to fight about something and if you're too nice and sweet and unassuming, then they might as well attack your plate. Sorry people, but I haven't the time.

Thanks for the giggle, Kate!
September 29, 2008 | Unregistered CommenterElaine
Vegetables are the new gay
September 29, 2008 | Unregistered CommenterJase
God, I didn't know you were a vegetarian. -hurries off to remove blog from roll-

;) The other day at a chamber of commerce lunch meeting, a woman who literally has to be 300+ pounds was lecturing my coworker because he doesn't take pills for borderline high cholesterol. "You ain't concerned about yer health?" she lectured. His plate was filled with grilled fish and green beans. Hers had fried popcorn shrimp, french fries, and two brownies.

Interessant, no?
September 29, 2008 | Unregistered CommenterGillian
Eat all the tofu you want. If it's Agedashi, I'll happily eat buckets of it myself. But Birkenstocks?! I guess that's my personal threshold of bigotry... I'm a Birkenstockist.
September 29, 2008 | Unregistered CommenterAlison
One of these days when you're dry for a post subject, I'd love it if you invited: a) veg readers to post their fave vegetarian recipe (bonus points for using tofu, tempeh, seitan, or something otherwise deemed as "weird" by the meat-eaters), and b) omni/carnivores to try out one of the recipes and deliver their verdict. If anything, I could at least garner some better recipes for tempeh!

Speaking of baby lambs, I can still recall my husband's fear and tiny "shhh, stop it" headshakes to the salesguy selling him a leather coat, when the guy kept emphasizing over and over that the jacket was exquisitely soft because it was made from the youngest of baby lambs. Hubby was afraid that I was going to throttle the guy, or worse yet, launch into a tirade about animal rights!
September 29, 2008 | Unregistered Commenternancy
Why are vegetarians mocked and condmned? Because it is so much easier to judge and condemn others than figure out what is really causing your own unhappiness. Or maybe it is misguided guilt about eating meat that makes folks lash out at those who don't eat meat. I don't know but I have been a meat eater and a non-meat eater and I have tremendous respect for those disciplined enough to eat what they feel is better for them. I was reading an article on the Omega Fatty Acids in Red Meat (Omega 3?) and how it contributes to irritation of already inflamed joints. I just turned 34, have a genetic predisposition to arthritis and my joints ache more with each winter. Maybe I need to reevaluate my red meat consumption for my joint health alone. Anyway, I say live and let live, eat and let eat, judge not lest ye be deep fried and consumed by mad cannibals.
September 29, 2008 | Unregistered Commenterkimblahg
oh and i like the idea of vegetarian recipe posting for omnivores to try. i am always looking for new things to feed my family!
September 29, 2008 | Unregistered Commenterkimblahg
I wish I knew. Where I live, vegetables are boiled down until they are gray and mushy - or covered in cornmeal and fried. Meat is done about the same way. Imagine my embarrassment as a newlywed inviting my MIL over for the first time for med rare london broil and steamed fresh green beans, still beautifully green and crunchy. She was served "yankee-fied" food. "oh son, put that back in the oven, and boil those down a bit - you lak those beans crunchy lak that???" Yeah.

I love the "stink a bit" line.
September 29, 2008 | Unregistered Commentertanya
Alison: he he. I knew someone would pipe up like "ewww! you wear birkenstocks?" (removes from bloglines)

...but be kind. I live in the country, in a house filled with hackmatack floors, and the only other option for warmth next to the fire (other than crocs, which is my personal threshold) is this kind of birkenstocks, my first pair:

http://www.softmoc.com/ca/systemshow-item_I060983

They're not too hippie, I swear. Or maybe they are. Maybe I'm in so deep that my armpits are hairy and I don't even know it. :)
September 29, 2008 | Unregistered Commentersweetsalty kate
TELL ME ABOUT IT!!!!! I became vegetarian a few years ago and people CONSTANTLY either tell me I'm not getting enough iron (I didn't know they could do a blood test on me without me knowing) OR they explain (without me asking) why they couldn't go vegetarian. I'm sorry...did I ask? NO.

This is my theory. Most people who eat meat knows what goes on at these factories but live by the "ignorance is bliss" motto. Then when they get around vegetarians they feel like we are thinking "ugh, they are disgusting for eating that" and think they need to justify themselves.

In the same way I wouldn't push my beliefs on someone, I wouldn't want to push vegetarianism onto someone.

(sorry this comment is so long but this subject really hit home)

P.S.
"Christ on a cracker?" LOVE it....let your husband know I'm going to use that from now on and if he wants to charge me for the rights then I'm fine with setting up a payment plan for every time I use it.
September 29, 2008 | Unregistered CommenterRach
i did it, i googled 'dangers of public yoga after cabbage consumption,' and guess what? it sent me right back to this blog entry. i guess my friends are right that i'm a tad literal. <sheepish guffaw.>
September 29, 2008 | Unregistered Commenterkz
Pssst... Kate...

Treat yourself to the vegetarian sushi at Doraku on Dresden Row one of these days. We can't afford it — even though it's cheap — but we can't stay away.

But don't tell anyone. We don't want it to get too popular.
September 29, 2008 | Unregistered CommenterRichard
I hear ya! I've been on both sides of the fence before... vegetarians on and off many times, and right now an omnivore. And people, PEEEEEeeeee-ple, just cannot leave me alone. They always question my choice. WHY? I don't know. They don't have enough boogers to dig, I think.

To be honest, I don't think anything is safe to eat these days. The water has rocket fuel in it and the air, don't get me started. Let's just leave each other to die in peace, 'k?
September 29, 2008 | Unregistered CommenterJanis
Ahh yes, richard - we've been to doraku many times and love it, although not since going vegetarian. I'll have to try that. Right now we're in a love affair with Hamachi House off Barrington - it's fantastic too.
September 29, 2008 | Unregistered Commentersweetsalty kate
You make a good point. However I do believe that I read an article recently (that didn't seem to be full of vitriol) showing that we in the US (or North America perhaps) eat a lot more soy than people in Asian countries actually because it is used in practically everything. This was cause for concern because some portions of processed soy can act like estrogen in the body therefore leading to possible breast cancer, etc.
All that to say, a healthy vegetarian diet is probably not one to include a lot of processed foods so as long as you don't use it in every meal as your sole source of protein you're probably okay! ;)
September 29, 2008 | Unregistered CommenterKrista
I was going to say that I can't believe that article was published.. but I guess I can, given the culture of fear that we live in. good god, did the American Meat Council threaten that author into writing that dribble??

I agree with others that it more about eating processed foods than eating soy or tofu. vegetarian solidarity, sister!!
September 29, 2008 | Unregistered Commenterjennifer wilde
My Mum (a pescetarian) has a theory: Food is love. When you reject someone's food, you reject their love.

No one really makes fun of it out here anymore although I do get the odd query about pecsetarian (a vegetarian who still eats fish and seafood). Time to move back out to the West Coast, where meat eaters are guilt-ridden for their footprint factor, and often apologize to me for continuing to eat meat. And come on, Birkenstocks are a basic essential of life on the island!
September 29, 2008 | Unregistered CommenterMichelle
Whether one is choosing to eat organic beef, locally made bread, or vegan, I'm just glad to see a growing trend towards people actually caring about what goes into their bodies.

Nice post.
September 29, 2008 | Unregistered Commenterjanet
maybe it's a matter of regional taste? In my 'hood, I'm often given the evil eye when I proclaim the holiness of the bacon burger (from bended knee). I can't imagine making fun of people for what they eat, though I can tell you up front I could never do the raw thing. I think that would turn my tummy into a pile of nails. But there's quietly thinking "to each their own" and open mockery. Maybe with the demise of making fun of people for their appearance and ethnicity and everything else that now draws lawsuits we're left with the more ephemeral issues of food? I'm really not sure. Like I said, where I live, you're the standard and I'm the oddball so I'm not very familiar with this.
September 29, 2008 | Unregistered Commentertash
Happy 7th Anniversary Kate and Justin!!!
A little late but it is still the 29th!!
We owe you a night on the town.
love Mom and Dad
September 29, 2008 | Unregistered Commentersweetsalty's Mom
Ok, Kate...I'm sold on the softmocs, by gum. And as a person who owns a pair of (lowers voice conspiratorily) pastel green Crocs, far be it from me to throw stones (or shoes) at your glass house.
Veg on!
September 30, 2008 | Unregistered CommenterAlison
Does this mean you won't put your veggie-ness aside for a night to dine at Vij's? I mean, they do have their veggie dishes but their meat dishes are to die for. (yeah - I'm just joking... joking about putting veggie-ness aside, their meat dishes really are to die for). I'll see if there are enough veggie dishes to make a whole meal... if you're intersted in eating at the best Indian restaurnat in North America (that's a quote from some foodie article, honest). We'll chat. xoxoDaph ps-I'd like to know why people care that people don't want to eat meat, if you ever find out, let me know.
September 30, 2008 | Unregistered Commenterdaphne
you, kate, are a joy to read.
all of it.

i couldn't agree more. and even though i used to be a vegetarian for nearly a decade but now eat meat, it doesn't matter, none of it does, like you said, what's anyone care? and i couldn't agree more.

public yoga + cabbage consumption = my sides splitting in laughter. thanks for the smile.
September 30, 2008 | Unregistered Commentercamerashymomma
But the problem is that we're all connected and our choices affect others. So saying "I'm just EATING so that I don't die." as someone did above doesn't make sense.

It's not just you and me eating. It's about how our choices affect the oceans, rain forests, farmers, grocers and food processors. Who is able to keep their farm and who loses their market? Which species are brought to extinction by our desires? What effects do pesticides have on farm workers? Do we want a world in which agriculture is dominated by GM organisms and large corporations? The answer to all of these questions can be at least partly found on our plates. Food is a controversial issue and as we all are eaters it affects us every day.
September 30, 2008 | Unregistered CommenterEJ
Kate... I'd been to Doraku a few times over the years, and thought it was good... But when we happened by in June, it was just terrific, way better than I remembered... And then we heard that it was under new ownership (although I don't know when they took over).

Our favorite used to be Milamodo — like so many great Asian restaurants, it's located in a (Rockingham) strip mall — but its now been eclipsed by Doraku.
September 30, 2008 | Unregistered CommenterRichard
I dont know why we care so much about what other people eat. Maybe it's to distract everyone from what we're cramming down our own pie holes.

I remember my Dad's face when my brother told him he had decided to eat a vegan diet. My brother may as well have told him he (my bro) had liver cancer and was going to tattoo Rainbow Brite on his face and move to the Moon where he planned to operate a pot farm.

Personally, I am so consumed with trying to figure out how to keep my own body healthy and my daughters from consuming 6 cups of sugar, daily, that I don't have the energy to be concerned with what my neighbors are snacking on. I was, however, sincerely concerned about what my neighbor in my Pilates class ate for lunch, when she started having audible, funky gas during some of the more compromising positions.

PS-Happy anniversary.
September 30, 2008 | Unregistered Commenteremily
Hi! I follow you on flickr and i saw this link and now i just had to comment.

I have been a total vegan-vegetarian since i was 11 (i am now 33). My choice, but not my families 1st choice in "what i want my daughter to become".

I have been teased for my choice by my entire family since the day i made the choice. I have been "tricked" several times (but did not fall for it) by my sister and brother and even my mother to "try a bite of this, you'll love it!" and it was full of meat. They purposely put meat in all of their cooked meals so i can not eat it. I mean, who puts ground beef in a salad?!

They think i am the strangest person to ever be in their family because i do not eat meat. I embarrass my mom when her friends offer me meat and i decline by saying, "no thanks, i do not eat meat." My mom gets so upset by this, it's like i'm saying, "no thanks i only eat with my toes" or something! lol

The world is an odd place. It's only meat...i do not see what is so strange about not wanting to eat it! I mean, they wouldn't eat their cat's...so why eat the neighbors cow? lol

and Tofu, all i can say is THANK GOD for tofu! Once i got out on my own in life at the age of 17 and was made aware of the plenties of goodies for people like myself (non-meat eaters) life was so much better. :o)

thanks for the wonderful blog entry!

*peace*
Michele Blue
September 30, 2008 | Unregistered CommenterMichele Blue
Soy has been a part of the diet in areas of the world with exceptionally low rates of heart disease and, until the relatively recent introduction of more highly processed 'western' foods, obesity for hundreds of years, as you said. Sure, soy comes in highly processed forms that are likely up there with hot dogs on the good-for-you scale and, like hot dogs, should probably be kept well away from.

Our fridge is full of soy - miso, tofu, tempeh, tamari and fresh beans most of the time. I try to steer clear of soy lecithin (difficult sopmetimes as it is everywhere), hydrolyzed soy protein and oils.

The European Union has a number system for all the permitted nasty things, and some not so bad, added to our food. There are often four or more E-numbers listed in the ingredients of even the most basic foods sometimes. That is a far more terrifying realisation than anything to do with soy.
September 30, 2008 | Unregistered CommenterLeah
Oh, and we miss you guys. xxoo
September 30, 2008 | Unregistered CommenterLeah
"the dangers of public yoga after eating cabbage," -- that was hilarious!

Shhhhh! Don't tell anybody, but my Birkenstocks are 14 years old and so comfortable....but they do stink. David "won't let me" wear them out of the house.

I commend you for eating so well. We unfortunately live in a world of convenience. If it takes more than five minutes in the microwave don't cook it. If you dare to actually take time to cook fresh foods there HAS to be something wrong with you....you must be a FOOD SNOB.

Since having kids I have started reading labels....it has only taken me 33 years to begin this activity. I have begun buying organic even though my husband rolls his eyes at me for doing so. I may spend all day in my kitchen, but I sure feel good when I see my kids eating healthy food without a laundry list of chemicals in them.
September 30, 2008 | Unregistered Commenterashley in sc
After years of trying different things, I have become a "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" vegetarian. I eat anything without visible meat chunks in it and also eat fish about once a month. Why? Because, as an adult, I get to choose what the heck I eat and if other people don't like it, they can go fly a kite.My policy also allows me to go out to Mexican and Chinese food without quizzing the wait staff about the soup stock, the beans, etc. I think it makes me more fun to be around and allows me to be more flexible, which works for me.
September 30, 2008 | Unregistered CommenterSuebob

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